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Post by debbyftm on Jan 27, 2008 15:57:20 GMT -5
hi, i am researching my family tree, and in a 1901 census i have 14 belle vale road little woolton/gateacre does this street still exist? and is it in little woolton or gateacre. I also had someone who was born in Gateacre in 1877. any info or pics grateful, thankyou
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june
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Post by june on Apr 23, 2008 17:30:56 GMT -5
Hi Debbie, You should speak to ken in memories of Lee Park and Gateacre. I don't know of anyone else who knows more about the area or who has photo's except him. I'm sure he won't mind you asking him directly, he's very nice. Belle Vale road is still there though I'm not sure which end your address is, thought it sounds like it may be up towards Gateacre. I live in Lee Park which is where the bottom end of Belle Vale Rd is and unfortunately the "Gateacre" that was part of our address was taken away from us with a boundary change. Something many of us are quite bitter about but hey, thats officialdom and politics for you! Go on, speak to Ken, im sure he will be able to help. June
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ken
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Post by ken on May 1, 2008 14:39:00 GMT -5
Hi Debbyftm, Sorry it's taken a while to reply; I'll be going cable soon, so that should solve my broadband connection problems. I've checked out the census returns and the Gore's Directories, but there's no record of any numbers in Belle Vale Road in the 1901 period, as they were mostly cottages, lodges, farms, etc. with their own names which pre-dated any numbering system.
The 1911 Gore's has "Walkers Cottages" (Church Cottages) numbered from 1-12, the only numbered houses in Belle Vale Road. If there was a no.14 maybe it was uninhabited. The 1938 Kelly's has the cottages between the corner of Halewood Road and the Rec Ground numbered from 1-9, and Church Cottages again numbered from 1-12.
Could you tell me where you found the no.14 Belle Vale Road, I'd be interested to know. Have you found out any more about your family? The only pic of Belle Vale Road I have is the one I posted on the Netherley thread, but that just shows the far end, in the open country. I'll check to see if any more pics show up,
Ken
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Post by maddog on May 6, 2008 7:50:44 GMT -5
there's no record of any numbers in Belle Vale Road in the 1901 period, as they were mostly cottages, no.14 Belle Vale Road, I'd be interested to know. Ken Ken, could this refer to one of the 'Church Cottages' as I've always known them. The ones next to St. Stephens Church?
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Post by shytalk on May 6, 2008 11:20:14 GMT -5
I think it is more likely that it would be at the Halewood Rd. end. There are or were a line of sandstone cottages between what was Morphets butchers shop on the corner down to the recreation field.
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june
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Post by june on May 6, 2008 16:31:38 GMT -5
The cottages are still there. Iv'e never noticed any numbers on them either, but then again I never had a reason to look, but I will next time I go that way.
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ken
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Post by ken on May 8, 2008 16:01:17 GMT -5
Hi June, I do have a little more info which might be relevant. The 1911 Gore's has "Walkers Cottages" (Church Cottages) numbered from 1-12, the only numbered houses in Belle Vale Road. If there was a no.14 maybe it was uninhabited. The 1938 Kelly's has the cottages between the corner of Halewood Road and the Rec Ground numbered from 1-9, and Church Cottages again numbered from 1-12. I've added this to my original answer,
Ken
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june
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Post by june on May 9, 2008 16:15:00 GMT -5
Hi Ken and Debbie. I passed the cottages today and saw the ones numbered 1 - 9. But next to them there is one set back a little bit but its gated off and I'm sorry debbie but I couldn't see anything. Morphets is now a funeral place but I think there is a road at the back. Could there be more cottages at the back? I know that wouldn't make it Belle Vale road but you only have to look at Woolton to see how oddly some of the property's were numbered back then! June
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ken
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Post by ken on May 13, 2008 14:56:54 GMT -5
Hi June, My own memories of the cottages are a bit dim, but according to the records, there's a house called "Elmsvale" in its own grounds, between the 9 cottages and the rec/cricket ground, and on the other side of the ground, next to the railway line, was a coalyard with a public weighing machine.
There's also an alley around the corner in Halewood Road going up behind the cottages, but this just flanks a private house called the "Lindens" - no connection with Belle Vale Road. I'd like to hear what debbyftm thinks of all this!
Ken
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mart
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Post by mart on May 16, 2008 8:47:29 GMT -5
hi all,
I live in number 8 Stone Cottages on Belle Vale Road (the sandstone cottages near the traffic lights/funeral directors).
Heading away from the lights...after the cottages is a bungalow then beyond that Elmsvale and then the cricket ground.
There isn't a road around the back - and the alley Ken mentions has nothing to do with the cottages (we back onto the garden of Lindens).
Ken, if you've got any info re. Stone Cottages, I'd love to find out more.
Mart
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mart
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Post by mart on May 17, 2008 5:31:24 GMT -5
ok, we've got a 1907 OS map which shows the only buildings on Belle Vale Road as the cottages (now 1-9), Elmsvale (no bungalow) then the next building is on the right immediately after the bridge. Further down (before you get to the church) there are a few buildings that are no longer there.
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ken
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Post by ken on May 17, 2008 6:21:08 GMT -5
Hi Mart, Thanks for those details. Stone Cottages, of course! I should have remembered that's what they're called now; there's a pic of them on the Gateacre website. It's great to talk to someone who actually lives there. That alley shown on the map only goes up behind the first couple of cottages, so then they back onto "The Lindens". I presume you've checked out the census returns for 8 Stone Cottages, they are a mine of information. But I think the cottages must date back about 200 years or more, when they were presumably built for workers in the local country houses and estates. That style of sandstone-built housing was very much in vogue in the late 18th Century. The 1938 Kelly's has Miss Jessie Ratcliffe at no.8, Miss Amy Hulatt at no.9, then Mrs. Frances Dale at "Elmsvale Bungalow" and William West at "Elmsvale". The 1911 Gore's has Joseph Ratcliffe, postman, at no.8.
Further down, "Throstle's Nest" and the Lee Hall Lodge and Jones's Farm were swept away when Lee Park estate was built.
There must still be some old features in the cottages; I'd love to hear about what they're like inside - any clues as to when they were built?
Regards, Ken
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mart
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Post by mart on May 17, 2008 7:34:16 GMT -5
They alley shown on the land registry is the driveway & rear accesss to the lindens, all the cottage gardens back on to a 15ft brick wall, none have gates through it (I guess the folk in the big house didn't like the commoners in the cottages!)
Not sure when they were built (or how to find out for sure) but I've just dug out some old papers that were passed on when we bought the house; these document change of ownership between 1837 to 1955...I'm guessing they were around for a while before first sold though as we're told they were originally workers cottages for people working the land for the Grange (each one complete with its own pig sty!)
Joseph Ratcliffe died 1935 passing to Jessie in July. Jessie seems to have been there until 1955 when the estate was passed on to Eleanor Clarke Brown.
Can only speak for our place, but 200yrs of other people's DIY makes it difficult (for an untrained eye!) to pick out original features (most have also been extended)...sure there must be som ethough (aside from the hulkingly thick stone walls that's kept them standing for a couple of hundrd years!)
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jacko
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Post by jacko on May 18, 2008 9:36:46 GMT -5
my friend lived in no 8 stone cottages, i also lived in no1, the house next door was in my mothers memory a back to back house, eleanor brown was my friends grandmother, a lovely family.our house, the one next to the butchers was originally a pub, once called the railway inn, and also was jonathan blackburns, at the turn of the century, getting back to the stone cottages, they were there on the 1841 census, my gt,gt, grandmother had a grocers shop there then, i believe they were built by a family called the greenhaughs, there is a street in woolton called after them. no1 had a cupboard in the kichen and when we moved in in 1957 we found it had originally been a hatch to serve beer through,. and in the kitchen buil,ders found an old well, but we had left the property then , and my mum used to say,to think i could have fell down there.
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ken
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Post by ken on May 19, 2008 17:59:39 GMT -5
Hi mart & jacko, That's brilliant! takes the story of those cottages back a long way, and the family connections too. They sure built 'em to last in those days! Thanks for taking the time to share the info, which I'm adding to my "pool" of information,
Ken
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